64 Comments
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Liz ONeil's avatar

Biden’s performance was shaky, but Trump lied almost every time he opened his mouth. He rarely answered a question just repeated his same inaccurate talking points.

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Noemi's avatar

As he always does.

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Gale's avatar

Oh geez--I think Biden reacted as many of us would--completely speechless at the sheer number of lies and incoherent thoughts coming out of the mouth of Trump. He got his footing later.

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Maureen Dougherty's avatar

Donald Trump is a convicted felon and never should have been allowed to debate a sitting president.

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Noemi's avatar

He also should never be allowed anywhere near the White House again.

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Thomas Topping's avatar

Unfortunately Joe Biden only tended to confirm his supporters' worst fears, that he has become overly frail and feeble. His weak voice, stuttering speech and unsure demeanor was in stark contrast to the assertive voice and robust personality of Donald Trump. We live in a cult of personality and perception is everything. However, I'd take an honest, caring, sincere man like Joe Biden over a lying, cheating, convicted criminal like Donald Trump any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

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Noemi's avatar

I would take such a man, and will continue to support him. If we want to keep our democracy, that is our choice.

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catherine grossman's avatar

Fodder for the comedian class. Biden won though; it's shame that not everyone will not see past the theatrics.

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Eileen Steele's avatar

Good to hear your voice again, Catherine. I had also hoped for weightier questions from the moderators and more speaking time. I felt Biden was rushing his answers (which is particularly difficult for those prone to stuttering) which made his articulation more slurred.

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catherine grossman's avatar

Eileen Steele! So nice to hear from you.

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Noemi's avatar

A glib liar....is still a liar.

A confident insurrectionist....is still an insurrectionist.

A smooth-talking felon....is still a felon.

Vote for substance. Vote for honesty. Vote for democracy.

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Jun 28
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Noemi's avatar

Please do.

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PaulK's avatar

Presidential debates have always been hokum where the “winner” proclaimed by the chattering class depends on one or two gotcha quips. What an embarrassing way to select a president. While Biden disappointed his supporters, anyone suggesting he step aside should be required to provide the name of the his replacement (one name only) and we’ll see the flaws of that approach. I can’t see it happening. Buck up everyone.

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Dawn's avatar

I agree with JPC. Biden is too old and not up to the task of winning the election, let alone, leading the U.S. for another four years. Biden should step down, set the delegates free, and allow the convention to be what it was meant to be. Trump is dangerous. And if there is no choice but Biden, I will vote for him with conviction. I also think we need to consider a mandatory retirement age for the president and Congress. I'm almost 70 and I wish that those hanging on to power for far too long stymie the chances of younger, fresher, and smarter leaders to move us out of this chaotic and disheartening era we are in.

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Jun 28
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Mike Dwyer's avatar

With the exception of Trump, no matter who the GOP had on the ticket against Biden, they would have won. Real or not, the perception is the economy is in the trash; and people trying to decide who to vote for won’t vote for something they perceive as crashing the economy.

Trump is the only person the could lose to Biden and that only because of his role in Jan 6th, Covid spread in 2020, and his felony conviction. But Biden is doing his best to ensure that Trump wins by having such a poor performance and pretty much any Democrat would beat Trump, except Biden.

I still think this is the most 50/50 the election can be if Trump or Biden is on the ballot. I was giving a slight edge to Biden, but honestly now I give it to Trump.

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John Mason's avatar

"You're the worst President!" "No, you're the worst President!" We need a new sandbox, don't we?

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JD's avatar

Of course, one — and only one — of them actually was our worst President in the nation’s history.

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Mike Dwyer's avatar

It’s really hard to argue that either Biden or Trump or Obama or Bush or Clinton or Bush or etc are worse then Andrew Johnson who fumbled the restoration of the US after the civil war so terribly, he likely prolonged the segregation and discrimination that black people still feel today.

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JD's avatar

Okay, maybe Johnson…but surely on the “Worst 2 or 3” list. And, should he prevail in November, I fear we “ain’t seen nothin’ yet”….

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JPC's avatar

It wasn't just optics. Joe Biden confirmed our worst fears. He is a good and decent man. He has built a strong and knowledgeable team around him. He is everything DJT is not. Except he is and he acted every bit of his age. And then some. Cold or no cold, it was obvious in that moment, he was not able to carry out the assignment. The President must always be ready to carry out the assignment.

A year ago he should have stepped aside. The same hubris cost us a seat on the Supreme Court with RGB. If nothing changes, the same will happen to the presidency and probably the Congress. Bidens stumble does not make me more likely to support DJT. But, I am less enthusiastic today. I am less likely to send a donation. Throw open the convention. Let the delegates choose someone else. It will be loud and messy, but necessary for the long term goals of the nation.

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Noemi's avatar

I think that throwing open the doors now would only lead to chaos, and a better chance of re-electing the insurrectionist. I do still think that Biden can do the job, even if he's not a great debater. Really, who actually cares about debate? I care about the future of our democracy!

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BCA's avatar

A strong and knowledgeable team? VP Harris doesn’t fit that description at all.

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Cheryl kirkpatrick's avatar

How can you debate a liar? And liar isn’t a strong enough word. How can you debate a 6 year old? How can you possibly answer a question in 2 minutes, when the scum of the earth has just accused you of outrageous nonsense? Which lie do you tackle first? Tell me who is the fastest thinker who could have handled despicable orange blob. Maybe John Stewart?

Now for the subject of dementia: I dealt with it with my father, he died before it was really noticeable = his wish for decades, as he knew how demeaning it is. My mother fell and hit her head. It had to be the memory cell that was damaged. So what! She still had all her marbles= she had complete rational thinking! Orange man isn’t capable and never was of rational thinking! Joe is the one who has been around gov’t for 50 years, while orange creep doesn’t know what the word means!

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Noemi's avatar

Outrageous nonsense is exactly the right description. The only possible response would have been to say that was all a pack of lies, every single word. But that would get repetitious pretty fast.

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JD's avatar

The ultimate rhetorical weapon: gaslighting with an endless supply of free natural gas provided by those companies on whose behalf environmental protections will be unraveled.

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Jun 28
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Cmship's avatar

I think we are thinking of the same person and I think even he would have trouble dealing w/ this open spigot of lies.

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Jenn B's avatar

I wonder if you’re thinking of the same man who I was for in the last election. When he didn’t get the nomination, I thought he should have been Secretary of State.

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Jenn B's avatar

And as Secretary of State, he’d have had the visibility and involvement that could have put him in position for 2024.

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Bridges's avatar

Biden was pathetic. Dr Jill and his other handlers (many nameless, except for BO) cannot cope with an old man who has declining cognitive function. For the first time we were able to compare actual records of two presidential candidates. In that respect, as well as plans for the future, Donald Trump was the clear winner. He is the only person who can keep the Republic from ultimate destruction. I look forward to seeing him again in the White House.

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Noemi's avatar

Go watch interviews of Trump from years ago. Talk about declining cognitive function. The man can't put together a coherent sentence now. Plus, all he did during that debate was lie. Big heaping stinking piles of lies. He IS the destruction.

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Bridges's avatar

Biden was not as bad as he could have been. Rumor has it that he was on Adderall. But he was still pretty bad. It is time this dingbat retired to his recliner, ate ice cream and watched old TV shows on CNN, MSDNC (oops, MSNBC) and like-minded stations. Of course, Dr Jill won't permit that to happen. She and his other handlers will keep propping him up in the hopes that he will win re-election. For the first time, we have two presidential records to compare. Biden's is just awful - compare him and Trump on immigration, inflation, minority unemployment, international diplomacy and attempts to skirt around the Constitution. Plus Biden's systemic attempts to destroy America. MAGA!!

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Noemi's avatar

Um....Trump separated children from their families, with no intention or plan to reunite them. Many have never been. He is a racist and a misogynist. His actions and words during COVID caused millions of unnecessary deaths. Putin controls him. He gave huge tax cuts to rich people, ignoring the poor. He made the US a laughingstock among our allies, and kissed up to our enemies. He incited a riot IN OUR CAPITAL. And he has SAID he's going to circumvent the Constitution on his first day back in office. He will go down in history as the very worst president ever....perhaps from prison. And deservedly so.

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Bridges's avatar

Looks like you are having an overdose of CNN and MSDNC.

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JD's avatar

Looks like you have an underdose of factual knowledge.

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Noemi's avatar

That doesn't change the facts about Trump.

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Eileen Steele's avatar

The debate was disappointing on many levels. The questions were not crafted to bring out policy plans moving forward, but backward looking on past deeds. The moderators did not intervene to get the candidates to actually answer the question. The 2min time limit resulted in less meaningful questions and follow-up.

The moderators only used their 1minute follow-up sporadically to try to get Trump to address the topic - giving Trump extra minutes compared to Biden. Given all that - I was disappointed because the content was so limited. Both candidates did their best but I felt CNN didn’t give either of them a proper setting for a substantive debate.

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Donna Beering's avatar

Sad and sorry to say that neither one surprised me as they both acted as they always do without a teleprompter. Strategically, Trump could have said, “and how do you think Kamala would have handled it? She’s will be president if Joe wins!” That should scare us all!

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JD's avatar

That’s a bold and presumptuous claim, with no useful argument offered for why “we should all be scared.” And as a matter of fact, we’re *not* all scared at the prospect of Harris as President.

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Cmship's avatar

Harris doesn't scare me. She's strong, decisive and capable. Sort of like another woman that voters "weren't comfortable with."

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Jim Garland's avatar

What a choice!!! A liar who is a convicted felon or a seemingly "out of to" old man. What have we come to as a country?

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JD's avatar

What we’ve come to as country, alas, is — astoundingly — being on the razor’s edge of a possible slight majority of voters actually believing that an utterly self-serving, America-bashing, ethically bankrupt, foul person who admires autocrats and white nationalists, molests women, and would sooner tear down the rule of law than be personally inconvenienced by it is nevertheless somehow a viable choice for President. Let’s hope we’re not really that disgusting and misguided as a people.

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Noemi's avatar

I like what you have written. I do not like that that is the state of our nation.....but it really is.

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Jun 28Edited
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Phthor Quiddity's avatar

Eloquent!

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Frank Hannan's avatar

Biden’s “Stream of unconsciousness” performance was disturbing. The whole world was watching. It was a sad and dangerous day for America.

Frank Hannan

Speaking Frankly

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Noemi's avatar

Dangerous is the man who OUT LOUD threatens our very democracy.

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Phthor Quiddity's avatar

You remember the other guy has spoken, repeatedly, in public, about how much he'd like to bang his own daughter, right? That said, Biden told us he would step aside for a new generation and he did not. It is one of the few promises he did not keep and it may turn out to be the whole ball game.

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Noemi's avatar

I'm just sorry that nobody took Elizabeth Warren seriously. The media basically skipped over her stats and reported on #1 and #3. She's VERY smart, she's articulate, she's thorough. She should have been president that round.

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Jun 28Edited
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Cmship's avatar

Totally agree. They stuffed him w/ stats rather than review his most important policies and goals and give him easily digestible points to get across to voters.

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Phthor Quiddity's avatar

He did so well at the State of the Union 4 months ago, though. He really bungled the answer on abortion that drifted off into immigration, following the one track Trump was on. Biden is a strong enough leader to instruct his delegates to support a ticket of Gen. Mark Milley (age 66) and Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (age 52). He deals with Putin and Xi, she picks the replacements for "Justices" Thomas (age 76) and Alito (age 74); the VP is coin flip or the one with fewer death threats from MAGA terrorists.

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Cheryl kirkpatrick's avatar

I am shocked by the comments favoring orange man, who definitely has parts of his brain missing. I suggest that you plan where you well immigrate after the election, as you will be so unhappy living in the best democracy in the world. And if you don’t want freedom for all, then we who do, don’t want you here. Go back to the country where your ancestors came from. You may think that Biden has lost his memory, but he has common sense and rational thinking. And anyone thinking otherwise is just plain stupid, and that is putting it mildly,

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Jenn B's avatar

Yes. Looking back, Biden’s performance seemed to be from over-preparation on memorizing facts, and focus on making his own points.

There was no strategy for responding to Trump lying (frequently about a topic that wasn’t even the question). The prep team should have seen this coming, and told Biden - knock down the lies, then if there’s time, answer the question. If there isn’t time, say “Trump’s wasted the time on an unrelated point - please re-ask the original question so we can answer it”.

I could just see Biden’s wheels turning when faced with the barrage of lies - not sure what track to take.

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Jenn B's avatar

Since the moderators weren’t going to fact-check, it was up to Biden, and the debate format didn’t allow time for that and also actually answering the questions. It was like when a funnel gets all jammed up.

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Phthor Quiddity's avatar

That age issue came outta nowhere. 2021: Oh no, here comes a steamroller! 2022: Oh no, here comes a steamroller! 2023: Oh no, here comes a steamroller! 2024: Oh no, here comes (squish)

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John Mason's avatar

Not if you understand dementia. Not if you have walked it with loved ones.

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BCA's avatar

Morning everyone, just bumping this thread for those who did not think Trump could win. The circumnavigation of the nomination process for Ms. Harris (also known as a coup) did not work. Can't switch an empty suit for an empty pant suit. Americans are smarter than that.

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Cheryl kirkpatrick's avatar

I believe that when you thought Biden was looking out in space dumbfounded, he was. And he was saying to himself, “Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, and Pope Francis how am I susposed to answer this lunatic? Even Joy Reed on national TV said last night, “it’s like going out to dinner and your choices are steak or a pile of poop”! Her guests were shocked, but laughed, as Joy had gotten it right.

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BCA's avatar

Gonna be a lot of sad people on this forum after the first Tuesday in Nov when Trump is elected. I don’t particular care for him but it is better than 4 more years of Biden. It’s sad to see someone slip and become feeble like Biden. But someone in his health should not represent the US.

I hope this thread is bookmarked and revisited after the election.

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Noemi's avatar

What is sad is that people think Trump's plan to dismantle the federal government won't affect THEM. Someone in his mental state should never be allowed anywhere near the White House again. Especially after his insurrection.

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BCA's avatar

Just bumping this thread

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Noemi's avatar

President Felon. How proud you must be.

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BCA's avatar

Felon, to McDonald's worker to President!

Yesterday was an undeniable repudiation of the last four years, the media's relentless gaslighting and the left. Turns out the economy isn't thriving and no amount of celebrity endorsement changed that.

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Noemi's avatar

Or a massive outbreak of amnesia. The economy IS thriving, AND there are plenty of people who aren't keeping up. But Trump's years were much, much worse - remember the millions of people who died during the pandemic because he lied?

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DL's avatar

I don’t understand the comment “how would Kamala would have handled it?” Handle what?

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