71 Comments

Biden’s performance was shaky, but Trump lied almost every time he opened his mouth. He rarely answered a question just repeated his same inaccurate talking points.

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As he always does.

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Oh geez--I think Biden reacted as many of us would--completely speechless at the sheer number of lies and incoherent thoughts coming out of the mouth of Trump. He got his footing later.

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Donald Trump is a convicted felon and never should have been allowed to debate a sitting president.

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He also should never be allowed anywhere near the White House again.

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Unfortunately Joe Biden only tended to confirm his supporters' worst fears, that he has become overly frail and feeble. His weak voice, stuttering speech and unsure demeanor was in stark contrast to the assertive voice and robust personality of Donald Trump. We live in a cult of personality and perception is everything. However, I'd take an honest, caring, sincere man like Joe Biden over a lying, cheating, convicted criminal like Donald Trump any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

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I would take such a man, and will continue to support him. If we want to keep our democracy, that is our choice.

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Fodder for the comedian class. Biden won though; it's shame that not everyone will not see past the theatrics.

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founding

Good to hear your voice again, Catherine. I had also hoped for weightier questions from the moderators and more speaking time. I felt Biden was rushing his answers (which is particularly difficult for those prone to stuttering) which made his articulation more slurred.

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Eileen Steele! So nice to hear from you.

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A glib liar....is still a liar.

A confident insurrectionist....is still an insurrectionist.

A smooth-talking felon....is still a felon.

Vote for substance. Vote for honesty. Vote for democracy.

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Stealing this!

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Please do.

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founding

Presidential debates have always been hokum where the “winner” proclaimed by the chattering class depends on one or two gotcha quips. What an embarrassing way to select a president. While Biden disappointed his supporters, anyone suggesting he step aside should be required to provide the name of the his replacement (one name only) and we’ll see the flaws of that approach. I can’t see it happening. Buck up everyone.

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I agree with JPC. Biden is too old and not up to the task of winning the election, let alone, leading the U.S. for another four years. Biden should step down, set the delegates free, and allow the convention to be what it was meant to be. Trump is dangerous. And if there is no choice but Biden, I will vote for him with conviction. I also think we need to consider a mandatory retirement age for the president and Congress. I'm almost 70 and I wish that those hanging on to power for far too long stymie the chances of younger, fresher, and smarter leaders to move us out of this chaotic and disheartening era we are in.

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I think there are risks with Biden stepping aside as well as possible benefits. It needs to be thought out carefully. Infighting will just cause a downward spiral. Whatever the decision of Biden and the party, it needs to be made thoughtfully, without egos getting in the way, and with a strong, well-planned strategy and message for moving forward.

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With the exception of Trump, no matter who the GOP had on the ticket against Biden, they would have won. Real or not, the perception is the economy is in the trash; and people trying to decide who to vote for won’t vote for something they perceive as crashing the economy.

Trump is the only person the could lose to Biden and that only because of his role in Jan 6th, Covid spread in 2020, and his felony conviction. But Biden is doing his best to ensure that Trump wins by having such a poor performance and pretty much any Democrat would beat Trump, except Biden.

I still think this is the most 50/50 the election can be if Trump or Biden is on the ballot. I was giving a slight edge to Biden, but honestly now I give it to Trump.

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"You're the worst President!" "No, you're the worst President!" We need a new sandbox, don't we?

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Of course, one — and only one — of them actually was our worst President in the nation’s history.

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It’s really hard to argue that either Biden or Trump or Obama or Bush or Clinton or Bush or etc are worse then Andrew Johnson who fumbled the restoration of the US after the civil war so terribly, he likely prolonged the segregation and discrimination that black people still feel today.

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Okay, maybe Johnson…but surely on the “Worst 2 or 3” list. And, should he prevail in November, I fear we “ain’t seen nothin’ yet”….

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founding

It wasn't just optics. Joe Biden confirmed our worst fears. He is a good and decent man. He has built a strong and knowledgeable team around him. He is everything DJT is not. Except he is and he acted every bit of his age. And then some. Cold or no cold, it was obvious in that moment, he was not able to carry out the assignment. The President must always be ready to carry out the assignment.

A year ago he should have stepped aside. The same hubris cost us a seat on the Supreme Court with RGB. If nothing changes, the same will happen to the presidency and probably the Congress. Bidens stumble does not make me more likely to support DJT. But, I am less enthusiastic today. I am less likely to send a donation. Throw open the convention. Let the delegates choose someone else. It will be loud and messy, but necessary for the long term goals of the nation.

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I think that throwing open the doors now would only lead to chaos, and a better chance of re-electing the insurrectionist. I do still think that Biden can do the job, even if he's not a great debater. Really, who actually cares about debate? I care about the future of our democracy!

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A strong and knowledgeable team? VP Harris doesn’t fit that description at all.

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I agree that the time to step aside was last year, but now it may be too late. Stepping aside will only be beneficial if the party can choose a good replacement with little to no infighting, staying united, and putting egos aside for once. If they can't, they'd do better to come up with a strong strategy to recover from this and make sure Biden is strong and clear in the next debate.

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How can you debate a liar? And liar isn’t a strong enough word. How can you debate a 6 year old? How can you possibly answer a question in 2 minutes, when the scum of the earth has just accused you of outrageous nonsense? Which lie do you tackle first? Tell me who is the fastest thinker who could have handled despicable orange blob. Maybe John Stewart?

Now for the subject of dementia: I dealt with it with my father, he died before it was really noticeable = his wish for decades, as he knew how demeaning it is. My mother fell and hit her head. It had to be the memory cell that was damaged. So what! She still had all her marbles= she had complete rational thinking! Orange man isn’t capable and never was of rational thinking! Joe is the one who has been around gov’t for 50 years, while orange creep doesn’t know what the word means!

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Outrageous nonsense is exactly the right description. The only possible response would have been to say that was all a pack of lies, every single word. But that would get repetitious pretty fast.

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The ultimate rhetorical weapon: gaslighting with an endless supply of free natural gas provided by those companies on whose behalf environmental protections will be unraveled.

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I agree with everything you say here. I can think of one person who I absolutely believe could wipe the floor with Trump in any kind of a debate. Unfortunately, there are too many people that would think he has too many social strikes against him simply because of who he is and they would not think he could win the presidency or they would think that there would be too many people who would review to vote for him because of who he is.

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I think we are thinking of the same person and I think even he would have trouble dealing w/ this open spigot of lies.

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I wonder if you’re thinking of the same man who I was for in the last election. When he didn’t get the nomination, I thought he should have been Secretary of State.

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And as Secretary of State, he’d have had the visibility and involvement that could have put him in position for 2024.

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Biden was pathetic. Dr Jill and his other handlers (many nameless, except for BO) cannot cope with an old man who has declining cognitive function. For the first time we were able to compare actual records of two presidential candidates. In that respect, as well as plans for the future, Donald Trump was the clear winner. He is the only person who can keep the Republic from ultimate destruction. I look forward to seeing him again in the White House.

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Go watch interviews of Trump from years ago. Talk about declining cognitive function. The man can't put together a coherent sentence now. Plus, all he did during that debate was lie. Big heaping stinking piles of lies. He IS the destruction.

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Biden was not as bad as he could have been. Rumor has it that he was on Adderall. But he was still pretty bad. It is time this dingbat retired to his recliner, ate ice cream and watched old TV shows on CNN, MSDNC (oops, MSNBC) and like-minded stations. Of course, Dr Jill won't permit that to happen. She and his other handlers will keep propping him up in the hopes that he will win re-election. For the first time, we have two presidential records to compare. Biden's is just awful - compare him and Trump on immigration, inflation, minority unemployment, international diplomacy and attempts to skirt around the Constitution. Plus Biden's systemic attempts to destroy America. MAGA!!

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Um....Trump separated children from their families, with no intention or plan to reunite them. Many have never been. He is a racist and a misogynist. His actions and words during COVID caused millions of unnecessary deaths. Putin controls him. He gave huge tax cuts to rich people, ignoring the poor. He made the US a laughingstock among our allies, and kissed up to our enemies. He incited a riot IN OUR CAPITAL. And he has SAID he's going to circumvent the Constitution on his first day back in office. He will go down in history as the very worst president ever....perhaps from prison. And deservedly so.

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Looks like you are having an overdose of CNN and MSDNC.

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Looks like you have an underdose of factual knowledge.

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That doesn't change the facts about Trump.

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founding

The debate was disappointing on many levels. The questions were not crafted to bring out policy plans moving forward, but backward looking on past deeds. The moderators did not intervene to get the candidates to actually answer the question. The 2min time limit resulted in less meaningful questions and follow-up.

The moderators only used their 1minute follow-up sporadically to try to get Trump to address the topic - giving Trump extra minutes compared to Biden. Given all that - I was disappointed because the content was so limited. Both candidates did their best but I felt CNN didn’t give either of them a proper setting for a substantive debate.

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I do agree with you that the 2-minute format, especially with them cutting off their mics probably didn't work as well as they hoped. I think in particular it was part of the reason Biden was having problems because he was actually trying to answer the questions and often had so much information. He was trying to speak too fast and would end up making mistakes and stumbling over his words, whereas Trump did not care if he actually answered the question or not. He just said whatever he wanted to say so he did not at all feel rushed or stressed by the 2-minute time limit. If you notice Biden would often answer a question and then when he had extra time left he would go back to address something in more detail. From a previous question, Trump would do just the opposite. He would ignore the questions and just say whatever he wanted or address a previous question and then have to be asked the original question all over again

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Sad and sorry to say that neither one surprised me as they both acted as they always do without a teleprompter. Strategically, Trump could have said, “and how do you think Kamala would have handled it? She’s will be president if Joe wins!” That should scare us all!

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That’s a bold and presumptuous claim, with no useful argument offered for why “we should all be scared.” And as a matter of fact, we’re *not* all scared at the prospect of Harris as President.

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Harris doesn't scare me. She's strong, decisive and capable. Sort of like another woman that voters "weren't comfortable with."

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I think actually, it would have comforted many undecideds, especially younger ones. I'm guessing it's why he was advised NOT to say this!

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What a choice!!! A liar who is a convicted felon or a seemingly "out of to" old man. What have we come to as a country?

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Jun 28·edited Jun 28

You're voting for more than just one man. Look at the whole package you are getting with each of them. A good leader surrounds themself with people who fill in their gaps, give them honest advice and counsel, and work to enact policy for the best of the country and it citizens. Egotistical selfish leaders surround themself with yes-men/women, who will tell them only what they want to hear, will fight amongst themselves as they vie for power and attention, and will help enact policies that benefit the 'leader" and themselves, to the detriment of the country and its citizens. Vote for the whole package, not just the man heading the ticket.

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Eloquent!

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Thank you!

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What we’ve come to as country, alas, is — astoundingly — being on the razor’s edge of a possible slight majority of voters actually believing that an utterly self-serving, America-bashing, ethically bankrupt, foul person who admires autocrats and white nationalists, molests women, and would sooner tear down the rule of law than be personally inconvenienced by it is nevertheless somehow a viable choice for President. Let’s hope we’re not really that disgusting and misguided as a people.

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I like what you have written. I do not like that that is the state of our nation.....but it really is.

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Biden’s “Stream of unconsciousness” performance was disturbing. The whole world was watching. It was a sad and dangerous day for America.

Frank Hannan

Speaking Frankly

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Dangerous is the man who OUT LOUD threatens our very democracy.

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Agree.

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You remember the other guy has spoken, repeatedly, in public, about how much he'd like to bang his own daughter, right? That said, Biden told us he would step aside for a new generation and he did not. It is one of the few promises he did not keep and it may turn out to be the whole ball game.

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I'm just sorry that nobody took Elizabeth Warren seriously. The media basically skipped over her stats and reported on #1 and #3. She's VERY smart, she's articulate, she's thorough. She should have been president that round.

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Jun 28·edited Jun 28

I think Democratic leadership let that slide because for whatever reason they felt like they did not have a candidate who could take on Trump effectively, once they knew Trump was definitely going to run again and would likely win the nomination again. They knew Biden had beat him once and they decided to go with that. As for his performance in the debate, in terms of struggling to answer the questions stumbling over his words, having a hoarse voice that sort of thing. I feel that whoever was in charge of his debate prep is at least partially to blame. We've seen him in past debates only 4 years ago and he did much better than this. I realize he is 4 years older but I really feel that something went wrong with this prep here. I feel that after having watched him in debates in the past, he actually makes an effort to answer the question asked effectively and he tries to follow the rules when his time is up and I think it makes him feel rushed. And I think that that was just a bad combination in this debate because he also had the hoarse voice and it caused him to try to speak too fast stumble over his words in a rush to try to get all the information out and it was hard to understand him because of the hoarse voice. That doesn't at all make up for the fact that, I realize, so many people are just going to see it the way they're going to see it that he was old and frail and possibly incompetent. I think they're wrong, but it is what it is.

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Totally agree. They stuffed him w/ stats rather than review his most important policies and goals and give him easily digestible points to get across to voters.

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He did so well at the State of the Union 4 months ago, though. He really bungled the answer on abortion that drifted off into immigration, following the one track Trump was on. Biden is a strong enough leader to instruct his delegates to support a ticket of Gen. Mark Milley (age 66) and Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (age 52). He deals with Putin and Xi, she picks the replacements for "Justices" Thomas (age 76) and Alito (age 74); the VP is coin flip or the one with fewer death threats from MAGA terrorists.

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I get what you're saying. But I feel that If they think seriously that replacing Biden has a chance of working. The only way it's going to work is if they replace him with someone who is absolutely going to dazzle people when they give speeches, at the debates, etc. Etc. Because I do not believe that there are any other younger Democrats that are well known enough right now that could actually run for president that people would feel like they knew them. Unfortunately, all the people that are the highest profile are also quite old and probably would not be good options for many reasons to run for president. Besides being older. You have some people who are high profile such as AOC, but I think most people would say that she's probably way too young in an experienced and that could definitely hurt them. As someone who follows politics quite a bit, the only person I can think of that have a high enough profile that are probably in that sweet spot of being not too young. Not too old, having that combination of enough experience and added intelligence, is Governor Gavin Newsom from California. There's one or two others that I think are super intelligent and super well spoken, but they are not very well known and I'm not sure how they would do as a last minute replacement on the national stage. The only other option is obviously, vice president Kamala Harris.

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I am shocked by the comments favoring orange man, who definitely has parts of his brain missing. I suggest that you plan where you well immigrate after the election, as you will be so unhappy living in the best democracy in the world. And if you don’t want freedom for all, then we who do, don’t want you here. Go back to the country where your ancestors came from. You may think that Biden has lost his memory, but he has common sense and rational thinking. And anyone thinking otherwise is just plain stupid, and that is putting it mildly,

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Yes. Looking back, Biden’s performance seemed to be from over-preparation on memorizing facts, and focus on making his own points.

There was no strategy for responding to Trump lying (frequently about a topic that wasn’t even the question). The prep team should have seen this coming, and told Biden - knock down the lies, then if there’s time, answer the question. If there isn’t time, say “Trump’s wasted the time on an unrelated point - please re-ask the original question so we can answer it”.

I could just see Biden’s wheels turning when faced with the barrage of lies - not sure what track to take.

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Since the moderators weren’t going to fact-check, it was up to Biden, and the debate format didn’t allow time for that and also actually answering the questions. It was like when a funnel gets all jammed up.

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That age issue came outta nowhere. 2021: Oh no, here comes a steamroller! 2022: Oh no, here comes a steamroller! 2023: Oh no, here comes a steamroller! 2024: Oh no, here comes (squish)

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Not if you understand dementia. Not if you have walked it with loved ones.

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I believe that when you thought Biden was looking out in space dumbfounded, he was. And he was saying to himself, “Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, and Pope Francis how am I susposed to answer this lunatic? Even Joy Reed on national TV said last night, “it’s like going out to dinner and your choices are steak or a pile of poop”! Her guests were shocked, but laughed, as Joy had gotten it right.

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Gonna be a lot of sad people on this forum after the first Tuesday in Nov when Trump is elected. I don’t particular care for him but it is better than 4 more years of Biden. It’s sad to see someone slip and become feeble like Biden. But someone in his health should not represent the US.

I hope this thread is bookmarked and revisited after the election.

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What is sad is that people think Trump's plan to dismantle the federal government won't affect THEM. Someone in his mental state should never be allowed anywhere near the White House again. Especially after his insurrection.

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I don’t understand the comment “how would Kamala would have handled it?” Handle what?

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Jun 28·edited Jun 28

If you're talking about the previous comment here, I think what this person was referring to is that they were surprised that Trump did not make a point to bring up Kamala Harris and make a big point to people that we need to think about how she would have handled this or that situation or issue because he would be insinuating that she would end up being our president. President. Some people think that Trump would have done that because it would make people less likely to vote for Biden because maybe they don't like Kamala and would not want her as president . Personally, I believe that the reason he did not bring her up was exactly the opposite, because you would actually be reminding someone decided voters and some younger people that Biden actually has a very competent youthful vice president who is very intelligent who would appeal to younger voters and maybe they didn't want to remind people of that because it would actually make them more likely to vote for him rather than less likely. But maybe that's just my opinion. I don't know how she polls with people. I'm just speculating because I think if they thought it would hurt Biden, Trump would have brought her name up.

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